Haketilo

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 08:30:00 +0000
jahoti wrote:

The beginnings of an NLNet application are now in the
browser-extension-doc repository
(https://git.koszko.org/browser-extension-doc)*. It's still a work in
progress, yet the actual process of writing and editing it shouldn't
be too hard (they only want two pages or less of
good-enough-to-understand English); the main task will be other
preparation.

These are, at least as I see it, the most factors things to sort:

• have any of us been involved in projects or organizations relevant
  to this project before? While it's not a requirement, listing any
  experience is recommended to "help determine if you are the right
  person to undertake this effort"

• how much funding do we want? The bounds are 5000 to 50000 Euro, and
  can cover

  • scientific research;
  • design and development of open source software and open hardware;
  • validation or constructive inquiry into existing or novel technical solutions;
  • software engineering aimed at adapting to new usage areas or improving software quality;
  • formal security proofs, security audits, setup and design of software testing and continuous integration;
  • documentation for researchers, developers and end users;
  • standardisation activities, including membership fees of standards bodies;
  • understanding user requirements and improving usability/inclusive design;
  • necessary measures in support of (broad)er deployability, e.g. packaging;
  • admission fee, travel and subsistence costs for technical, developer and community events like hackathons, IETF, W3C, RIPE meetings, FOSDEM;
  • other activities that are relevant to adhering to robust software development and deployment practices;
  • project management;
  • out-of-pocket costs for infrastructure essential to achieving the above.

This isn't urgent (there's a month to go); nevertheless, I thought it
would be best to ask now in order to leave room for delays and
changes in the future.

* ... and should probably be moved if that repo is no longer required.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 11:21:13 +0200
"W. Kosior" wrote:

The beginnings of an NLNet application are now in the
browser-extension-doc repository
(https://git.koszko.org/browser-extension-doc)*.

Thanks!

It is nowhere near the actual Org mode syntax :p But that's not a
problem

• have any of us been involved in projects or organizations relevant to this project before?
  

This question seems vague. Does "this project" mean our extension?
There hasn't been any organizations nor project relevant to it... Can
a project be relevant to itself?

While it's not a requirement, listing any experience is recommended
to "help determine if you are the right person to undertake this
effort"

Well, I really hope we can get someone from the FSF, GNU or at least
FSFE to take the role of a mentor here...

• how much funding do we want? The bounds are 5000 to 50000 Euro, and can cover
  

Can we just choose the upper limit? :P
With more money, we could always hire more people to work on it.

• scientific research;
  not really
• design and development of open source software and open hardware;
  that's the main one
• validation or constructive inquiry into existing or novel technical solutions;
  not really
• software engineering aimed at adapting to new usage areas or improving software quality;
  I am not sure I understand. However, (expecially once we start working on the repository) we might also fall under this one well
• formal security proofs, security audits, setup and design of software testing and continuous integration;
  not really
• documentation for researchers, developers and end users;
  sure!
• standardisation activities, including membership fees of standards bodies;
  that would be great xd but we're not likely to get there as early as 2021 or 2022
• understanding user requirements and improving usability/inclusive design;
  sure!
• necessary measures in support of (broad)er deployability, e.g. packaging;
  sure!
• admission fee, travel and subsistence costs for technical, developer and community events like hackathons, IETF, W3C, RIPE meetings, FOSDEM;
  I am not this kind of hacker... are you?
• other activities that are relevant to adhering to robust software development and deployment practices;
  sure!
• project management;
  sure!
• out-of-pocket costs for infrastructure essential to achieving the above.
  I am currently using my VPS for git and issue tracker but we could move it to a separate server at some point. Domain name and SSL cert for the project would also be useful. Plus, obviously, we'll need to host the scripts repo once we develop it. I see in the application you focused on the extension and not on plans to set up a repository for scripts. I guess the problem is we're constrained by application size... Anyway, we should ask a mentor (once we find one) what is worth including and what is not.

This isn't urgent (there's a month to go); nevertheless, I thought
it would be best to ask now in order to leave room for delays and
changes in the future.

You're absolutely right!

• ... and should probably be moved if that repo is no longer required.
  

That repo is going to remain there for a while. Doc won't move itself
to wikia and humans are too busy/lazy to do it quickly.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 23:25:00 +0000
jahoti wrote:

On 7/1/21 9:21 AM, W. Kosior wrote:

It is nowhere near the actual Org mode syntax :p But that's not a
problem

What!? You mean hand-typing text in a markup format I never learned
properly into a text editor with no support for it didn't produce
perfect results straight away?

I might go back and learn Org mode syntax properly in the future (it
is rather nice); for now, at least, only plain text is going into the
form, which at least means there's the option of just ignoring the
terrible pseudo-Org markup :).

• have any of us been involved in projects or organizations relevant to this project before?
  

This question seems vague. Does "this project" mean our extension?
There hasn't been any organizations nor project relevant to it...
Can a project be relevant to itself?

After checking the original wording of the question from the
application, it turns out the bad wording is actually the original
and not mine. We really, really need a mentor ASAP (both for
technical experience and the application) :|.

Can we just choose the upper limit? :P
With more money, we could always hire more people to work on it.

We could; the problem is that 30% of the potential score for projects
is allocated to "Cost effectiveness/Value for money". One of the
questions on the form asks for what's being done with the money also,
which means there isn't really room for asking for more money than we
think is absolutely essential.

• software engineering aimed at adapting to new usage areas or improving software quality;
  I am not sure I understand. However, (expecially once we start working on the repository) we might also fall under this one well
  

I think it means taking existing software and extending or improving
it, so probably not unfortunately. (sorry so many of these are
irrelevant; the list was literally copied and pasted from the
website).

• standardisation activities, including membership fees of standards bodies;
  that would be great xd but we're not likely to get there as early as 2021 or 2022
  

True- we can always apply again later, however, if other funding
sources haven't come up by then.

I see in the application you focused on the extension and not on
plans to set up a repository for scripts. I guess the problem is
we're constrained by application size... Anyway, we should ask a
mentor (once we find one) what is worth including and what is not.

Definitely. The plan for this extension and how we're going to use it
and the repo/community/etc. associated with it is far, far too
detailed to fit in 1200 characters!

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 23:59:00 +0000
jahoti wrote:

Hi again!

Since I forgot to include a link in the last e-mail, an outline of
the criteria for the NLNet User-Operated Internet fund is here:
https://nlnet.nl/useroperated/eligibility/ .

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 11:24:55 +0200
"W. Kosior" wrote:

On 7/1/21 9:21 AM, W. Kosior wrote:

It is nowhere near the actual Org mode syntax :p But that's not a
problem

What!? You mean hand-typing text in a markup format I never learned
properly into a text editor with no support for it didn't produce
perfect results straight away?

Well, I didn't mean to criticize you or anything like that. Sorry if
that's what it seemed like. I just wanted to suggest a file name
ending with .txt would be less misleading :)

• have any of us been involved in projects or organizations relevant to this project before?
  

This question seems vague. Does "this project" mean our extension?
There hasn't been any organizations nor project relevant to it...
Can a project be relevant to itself?

After checking the original wording of the question from the
application, it turns out the bad wording is actually the original
and not mine.

That's what I assumed.

We really, really need a mentor ASAP (both for technical experience
and the application) :|.

True. A broadcast like the one I did yeasterday might not be enough.
Perhaps we will have to make a directed request to someone for help
with this.

Can we just choose the upper limit? :P
With more money, we could always hire more people to work on
it.

We could; the problem is that 30% of the potential score for
projects is allocated to "Cost effectiveness/Value for money". One
of the questions on the form asks for what's being done with the
money also, which means there isn't really room for asking for more
money than we think is absolutely essential.

That makes it rather difficult to choose an amount...

• software engineering aimed at adapting to new usage areas or improving software quality;
  I am not sure I understand. However, (expecially once we start working on the repository) we might also fall under this one well
  

I think it means taking existing software and extending or improving
it, so probably not unfortunately. (sorry so many of these are
irrelevant;

Well, I understand we only need one relevant point, right? :)

the list was literally copied and pasted from the website).

Yeah, I know

• standardisation activities, including membership fees of standards bodies;
  that would be great xd but we're not likely to get there as early as 2021 or 2022
  

True- we can always apply again later, however, if other funding
sources haven't come up by then.

Even if - more funding would not be a bad thing :P

I see in the application you focused on the extension and not on
plans to set up a repository for scripts. I guess the problem is
we're constrained by application size... Anyway, we should ask a
mentor (once we find one) what is worth including and what is
not.

Definitely. The plan for this extension and how we're going to use
it and the repo/community/etc. associated with it is far, far too
detailed to fit in 1200 characters!

That reminds me of the writing of my article for gnu.org. Andy Farnell
got me squeeze it from ~3.7k words to below 2.5k.